Northernheckler's Blog

A Yorkshireman's adventures in the big Smoke

What’s the big deal with St George’s Day ?


On the Sky News channel today, during the televised leaders debate featuring five candidates for the Labour Party Leadership, a question was posed of the candidates ( YouTube – 2 of the 5 Labour Leadership candidates knew that St George’s day is on 23rd April )  which caused a bit of a flurry on Conservative home Only two of Labour’s putative leaders know when St George’s Day is – LeftWatch

The question quite simply was to give the date of St George’s Day – and 3 of the candidates got this wrong,

(For those of you who don’t know, St George is the patron saint of England, with St Andrew, St Patrick and St David being the patron saints of Scotland, Ireland & Wales respectively)

There is a long tradition of wrong-footing politicians with unexpected questions – like how to pronounce Barnoldswick, or Slaithwaite – or indeed what Menzies Campbell’s name really sounds like. Asking candidates who their favourite Spice Girl or Tellytubbie was, proved a novel way of exploring knowledge of current affairs, and more recently quizzes about Bill Shankly and Ferry Cross the Mersey have been used to try and catch unsuspecting political hopefuls out.

So this unexpected question is perhaps also entirely predictable.

Does it matter that they couldn’t answer ?

Well I’d probably have got it right – I had the 4 patron saints’ dates for the UK drilled in to me as a Cub Scout between the ages of 9 and 11. Assisted in no small part by Blue Peter, who never failed to remind us when there was one coming up (I preferred Bleep & Booster myself).

I remembered St. Andrew’s Day because it was my brother’s birthday – and also Winston Churchill’s – as my working class Tory grandmother was very fond of reminding him. 30th November

I remembered St. David’s Day because it was easier to remember because it was on the 1st day of the month – and also because it was more or less in daffodil time –  1st March. My working class Tory Grandmother would also remind me as this was one of the 12 days per year when she said “Rabbits Rabbits Rabbits” to everyone she met.

I found St Patrick’s difficult to remember because that was the other March one. It was also difficult because my racist working class Tory Grandfather claimed every thing was the fault of the bloody Irish (except for the things that were the fault of Arthur Scargill and Joe Gormless), and my working class Tory Grandmother felt it best not to rattle his cage.  In later life I’ve remembered it because it’s the only one of the four patron saint’s days that ever gets celebrated by anyone March 17th

St George’s day was a funny one to remember because it’s the Queen’s Birthday on the 21st April, St George’s day, and Shakespeare’s birthday on the 23rd of April and my birthday on the 27th. Or was it the Queen on the 27th, me on the 23rd and St George … – you get the picture . My working class Tory Grandmother also had lost interest by this time as it was Spring, and she was getting ready to provide me with a suitably wonderful birthday present. Usually I could just about work out when it was though.

Having lived in England all my life and as an Englishman, how have we celebrated our patron saint’s day ? Well I can honestly say that except for 3 years I never have. Nor do I remember any body else doing, although I’ve seen a few things on pub black boards promoting Happy Hours & the like in recent times.

Those 3 years were of course when I was part of the Cub Scouts. I was the “sixer” of the Yellow Six, and as most of Yellow Six turned up and paid their subs I got to hold the flag at the St George’s Day Parade. This involved meeting with all the other scout and cub groups in the area, and walking down the middle of a road for about half a mile to a Church of England church (this remember was in a fairly secular area, where such Christians as there were, were far more likely to attend non-conformist churches or “chapels”) , where we then had to sing a few hymns and listen to a vicar. The hymns invariably included “Onward Christian Soldiers”, “I vow to thee my country”, “Stand up Stand up for Jesus, ye soldiers of the cross”, and “Soldiers of Christ Arise”. All of which to be fair were fairly standard fare from my County Primary School.

As an adult I’ve looked back on those times and felt saddened that as children we were effectively schooled in a para-military fashion – donning uniforms, waving national flags, swearing allegiance to our monarch, and to the established church, with it’s militaristic soldiers of Christ. In truth I can’t say it’s done me much harm. It seems a bit weird though.

So that’s what I associate with St George’s day – jingoism & indoctrination – which are thankfully far less common now. As an atheist who’s spent some time swotting up on Christianity as well, I have to say also that the whole cult of sainthood is one of the weaker aspects of Christianity, which stretches the credibility of the movement as a whole.

So what I’d have liked at least one of the candidates to answer would have been this :

“I’m not interested in St George’s day, because I’m not a Christian, I don’t support an established religion, and I have no wish to prop up the church and it’s non-elected leader the Queen by promoting it”

That would have made news. Sadly it would have also played right into Sky and Adam Boulton’s hands, and have lost Labour votes for many years to come. So maybe it’s better that they didn’t rise to the bait.

It wasn’t that tough a question really I guess – and the candidates I’ve voted for as first and second choice  both got it right.

A far easier question actually than predicting when Ash Wednesday falls – something which Sky News’s Kay Burley has found difficult in the past :

September 5, 2010 - Posted by | idle banter, politics, Religion | , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

5 Comments »

  1. […] Excerpt from:  What's the big deal with St George's Day ? « Northernheckler's Blog […]

    Pingback by What's the big deal with St George's Day ? « Northernheckler's Blog | St Georges Day Bank Holiday | September 6, 2010 | Reply

  2. Oh my, I shouldn’t take the bait here but it’s difficult not to. Needless to say this is your typical leftist fascist class war drivel, dig at the monarchy with a dig at christianity(you mob are always a lot more quiet about islam and judaism though, strange that) and even a dig at the ‘PARAMILITARY’ cub scout movement??????????
    I find those who deem their nations identity inferior to their countries class and jealousy matters as rather warped at the best of times but you take the biscuit!
    I find it rather disturbing that only a couple of these 5 closet neo marxists knew the date of what really should be the spring bank holiday in england, especially burnham….was this cretin not sports minister at one point banging on about how proud he was to be an englishman and how our passion as a nation for football would be one of the big reasons fifa should choose us to host the world cup in 2018 bla bla bla!
    I can imagine you sat there pondering about me being your stereotypical illiterate sieg heiling bonehead but alas i left all that behind 2 decades ago, just like john reid, jack straw, prince of darkness mandy and bulimia boy prezza etc left marx, trotsky and stalin behind in their youth eh!
    It is hardly surprising you won’t let on who you are and the disclaimer tickles me too, as if you leave your disturbing ultra left bigotry at the school gates each working day hmmmm?

    Comment by Chasloyal | September 6, 2010 | Reply

  3. When I was standing at the last election (“Left of Labour Independent,” thanks for asking) I was asked the St George’s Day question at a Hustings meeting. The question was asked by a BNP plant – there were quite a few in the crowd – and of course their candidate spoke about England’s green and pleasant land. I used a form of words similar to yours – “I’m not a christian so it’s not something I particularly celebrate.” What I thought was encouraging was that the young Tory candidate (it’s a VERY safe Labour seat) said something similar.

    On Ash Wednesday, I realise that it’s pretty daft of Kay Burley not to know the Ash Wednesday thing, but it’s also pretty absurd of the Vice President of the United States to do it. I might not have figured it out straight away either becuase it is just so ridiculous.

    Comment by Gareth Allen | September 7, 2010 | Reply

    • What bothers me is this ridiculous charade politicians have to go through in order to get elected. They have to pretend to be Christians, pretend to support the Royal Family, pretend to want to celebrate English nationality. This because it really would cost them a lot of votes if they didn’t – mainly because the tabloid & related media would whip up opposition to them amongst a section of the electorate who actually are also pretending to be bothered about those things – when in reality most of them are fairly apathetic about them.

      Personally I’m very comfortable about being English, I don’t feel the need to celebrate it or defend it, because it’s not under threat in any way. Perhaps if I were part of a small English community in a different part of the world I would, but I don’t. I think both the Monarchy and the established Church are anachronistic. We wouldn’t do that if we set up a new state from scratch, and I’d prefer not to have either. That said, they’re both way down the priority list for me.

      The Ash Wednesday thing shows Sky News to be the daft manipulators they are, but is neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things. He was very obviously trying to make a point about his religion – for what reason I’ve no idea. Funnily enough I’ve had parents at school parents evenings (held on Ash Wednesday) do the same thing, making a big show about coming in late with a splodge of ash on their forehead, saying “I’ve had to rush here after mass”. I didn’t understand what the point was then either – I assumed it was “What are you doing holding a parents evening on Ash Wednesday ? ” but may equally have been “Look at me I’m proud to be a Catholic !” – which I guess is a valid statement. It does look a bit weird if you don’t know about it – but the mighty Nes International should surely have done a bit of homework.

      Thanks for dropping by.

      Comment by northernheckler | September 7, 2010 | Reply


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